According to Bridge Nine Records, Ruiner played "over 200 shows in their first year and half in existence and in their second year, the band headed to Europe for 31 shows in 10 different countries." That kind of work ethic is applauded around these parts.
But more importantly, Ruiner released a grip of excellent hardcore records during their time together in the 2000s. The Baltimore, Maryland-based group's style often had a melancholic spirit coursing through it, with the kind of lyrics that get stuck in your head, and not just because they're catchy.
Ruiner vocalist Rob Sullivan penned some of my favorite lyrics in the hardcore realm for their era. I've been meaning to reach out to him to talk about his former band and his songwriting, so I finally pulled the trigger on that since it was 2000s Hardcore Week on the website.
Currently the owner and operator of Get Wrecked Fitness (more on that below), Rob took some time out of his schedule to indulge my punishing questions. I hope you guys dig it.
How did you get into hardcore music? Were you an early starter, or did you discover it in high school? What were some of your early favorites?
I grew up listening to all sorts of music. My parents are big music lovers so I was exposed to a lot of typical Top 40 stuff. I guess I went from rap music in elementary school to metal and then punk in middle school. I started listening to heavier crossover bands sometime my freshman year like Shai Hulud.
Before that it was stuff like NOFX and Bad Religion. All the typical favorites from Hot Topic comps. I grew up in a pretty white trash burb so my exposure was what I could find at a mall. I had a handful of friends with older brothers who started introducing us to stuff outside of what was easily obtainable pre-internet.
What are some of the early shows you saw that stand out in your memory?
We had a local skate shop in my town. That is where I saw my first shows. That’s where I saw the first flyers to other shows and the journey just started from there. I know when it comes to hardcore the big show that really hit me in the face. Equal Vision Showcase at St Andrews in College Park, Maryland.
I went to see Hope Conspiracy and Converge. I was familiar with Bane and American Nightmare but had never seen them live. That was a life-changing show. I was probably 17. That’s when I saw bands that had a message or tone that I got behind. It was more relatable.
What is the origin story behind Ruiner? Were you guys childhood friends, or did you all meet through the hardcore scene in Baltimore? I know you also booked shows there.
This answer is digging up some serious thoughts I haven’t had in a very long time.
Danny and I met through mutual friends when I was in a ska/punk band in high school. It was not good. I was also in a punk band with Justice from Trapped Under Ice while in high school. Danny would eventually join that. Those would end and members would form another band and another. Just different people came and went (to keep it short).
Steve played in a pretty catchy pop-punk band called 3 Prong Outlet and I always wanted to do something with him. We were both work horse personalities. We had goals and followed through. So, he joined one of the forementioned bands. Different friends from local bands we played with would eventually join Ruiner and we would end up with the main line up people saw.
Dustin and Joey were from another hardcore band called Counting the Days. That’s a very thrown together version of the story. I am leaving a lot out and a lot of people. Not for any other reason than its just a lot of details no one will actually care about.
For a long time, booking shows was a huge part of my life. I worked with several venues and helped build the Charm City Art Space which taught me a lot about community and working with a real team of people. Also taught me a lot of how not to act in a civilized world. I enjoy booking events and promoting events. That sorta hustle always came natural to me.
The Ruiner demo came out in 2004. Describe the Baltimore hardcore scene at that time.
At the time, I think the scene was good. We had a fair amount of all ages venues that bands could play at. A lot of touring bands would get good crowds coming out. I think we had something special with different types of subcultures playing shows together.
Overall, I think it was a good time in Baltimore. I think right now it's starting to have the same revival with just less venues. I say that from the outside looking in with bands like End It and others carrying the torch. I rarely make it to shows anymore, even ones I buy tickets to now I struggle to make it. Such is the life of a business owner.
Did the demo get a warm reception there when it was released?
The demo was received well, I believe. I think initially we had some hype to us because we had all been in different bands. I still remember putting the sticker and screen printing all the discs with Steve.
We were in our friend's basement apartment with the discs covering the floor and her bed. We would burn them, stamp them and wait for them to dry. Took us hours to sleeve them all.
Do you remember what bands Ruiner was being compared to from a stylistic point of view? Did you agree with that?
I remember in the beginning caring about who we were compared to. I think in the beginning I cared a lot more about a lot of things to be honest. When you are young you dwell on shit like that. But we would get comparisons to bands like Killing the Dream and other contemporaries on later records.
Initially, that first demo we would get more punky hardcore comparisons like Bane than the melodic hardcore ones like Modern Life is War or American Nightmare. I understood why we were compared to this band or that band. Usually, it's personal lyrics and the tone of our music in general. I don’t think we were doing anything outright groundbreaking. Those were just the easy comparisons to make.
2006 saw the release of the What Could Possibly Go Right EP.
We released that in a joint release with Grave Mistake Records and Fire Starter Records. I helped my roommate at the time put out a few records on Fire Starter, so it made sense to do this. Alex at Grave Mistake was an old friend of ours and he was willing to help us get it out. He had released so many good records around that time that it was just another way to get it to more people.
Overall, it was a very DIY release amongst a bunch of friends. It was exactly the way we wanted things to get out there. That effort would later get 1917 Records to release the CD version.
Thinking back, Ruiner played a ton of shows. At any point did you guys decide to go for the full-time band thing? How tough was it on your life back at home?
From the start of the band that was the intention. To be as full-time as we could, touring as constant as we could. It definitely was a strain on our relationships and jobs. Most of us had a job that allowed us to leave for long chunks a time. Or we had several hustle jobs just to get be. A few of us lived together as well so that cut back on expenses.
I think for a long time we enjoyed touring much more than writing music. I few of us had skilled labor jobs like I was a carpenter so hustling work wasn’t hard. I would usually come home and work for my dad or do security at clubs. We all had jobs like that at one point… record stores, print shops, delivery jobs or construction. It just made making money a little easier.
Did you talk to any labels before signing on with Bridge Nine? Why was that the right place for you guys?
We originally were with 1917 Records and they were supposed to release Prepared to Be Let Down. We had a falling out with the label not long after the recording was finished. We had sent the record out to a few labels but Bridge 9 had interest in us already. That would end up being a very perfect match for us.
They really took up for us after the falling out with 1917. That’s all old stories that aren’t important anymore. As a label, they stood up and still wanted to work with us. We built a very strong bond over that and to this day you’ll never hear me speak an ill word about Chris Wrenn or Karl Hensel (he was working for them at the time).
Ruiner’s first album, Prepare to Be Let Down, came out in 2007 and was recorded with Jim Siegel, an engineer/producer with an impressive discography. How did you come to work with him, and what was the tracking process like?
We sat down and talked about wanting to travel to record that first LP. I think Blacklisted ...The Beat Goes On and Give Up the Ghost We’re Down til We’re Under Ground sold us. If one thing really stood out on PTBLD it was the bass tone. Its perfect. That’s something Jim really does well is produce a full-sounding record. The bass on both of those albums I mentioned cuts through. That’s something we really wanted to capture.
Working with Jim was fine. Looking back it may have been too clean of a recording for us. That’s just my opinion though. It sounds great but we were such a looser band live. Jim is an interesting guy to say the least.
At the time, it was just him in his house with a very large DVD collection with a garage out back that was his recording studio. If a band works with him, they usually have some interesting stories. I don’t really want to share ours, if I am being honest.
You mention the bass, but I also dig how the vocals sound on that album. Did Jim push you hard?
I wouldn’t say Jim really pushed me vocally. I pushed myself a little too hard initially and I think the record reflects that. It was winter in Massachusetts so it was freezing the entire time we were staying up there. Cold air wrecks your vocals.
I stressed my voice out early in recording and I really didn’t get it straight. I don’t hate the finished product, but I wish it wasn’t as strained at times.
There’s an almost-diary/journal-like feel to your lyrics, especially on tracks like “A Song for Beggars” and “Repetition.” When you look at those lyrics today, are you transported right back to the time you wrote them and the people that inspired them?
Funny enough, I started to hate playing "A Song for Beggars." It was the one song I wrote towards someone post break up in a very negative way. That person really didn’t deserve what was said in that song and I regret writing it. When you are young you are mostly an ignorant fuck head who doesn’t understand relationships. As most Ruiner lyrics, I used writing as my way of coping. That was a song that didn’t need to be written.
I would say I get transported back. I definitely reflect on things when I reread lyrics or hear some of our songs. It's tough not to do that. Again, writing lyrics was and is a coping mechanism. It’s a lot easier to yell at a room of strangers sometimes than actually deal with your problems.
READ MORE: Favorite 2000s Hardcore Records As Picked By Musicians from the Scene (Part 1)
What was your headspace heading into the writing sessions for the second album? Did you want to approach anything differently, lyrically or musically, from the first album?
Overall, my writing process was always the same. I wrote down thoughts all the time in a sort of journal style. I had random notebooks I would carry around later it became notes in my phone. When we would write songs, I would have a concept in my head I wanted to work. Sometimes halfway through trying to fit what I was thinking, I would just scrap the lyrics because they didn’t feel right for the tone of the music.
I usually flowed through initial stages of the song doing what I guess you could call freestyling it (mostly making noises that sound like words). This was mostly to get down the cadence I was trying to capture. We would do a rough demo and I would sit around working on what I want to say into the song.
How did the band come to work with J. Robbins on Hell Is Empty? From what I understand, he’s not the kind of person to take on a project like that unless he’s genuinely a fan of what the band is doing.
J is a great dude. Modern Life Is War and Killing the dream had recorded with him. That sorta opened the door for us. We hung around when both were working with him. I did a song on the Killing the dream record, so it opened that door.
We did an EP [Dead Weight] with him first to see if we worked well together. On that EP, we covered "Ruiner" by Nine Inch Nails. He actually played a Moog on that song to recreate the intro of the song.
By the time we got to recording Hell Is Empty we were very familiar with his style. He has a funny way of telling you he doesn’t like something or if he thinks you are playing outside of your ability.
One example was during the song "Part 2." Joey (drummer) is keeping a high pace in that song. I am standing next to J in the booth and he turns down the track, looks up at me and says “can you sing this fast”… I laughed and said,“I fucking hope so." Or after you finish a riff or a bar of a song, he will listen back, pause for a few seconds and say, "hmm, lets try that again."
How was Hell Is Empty received when it came out? From what you’ve noticed since it came out, what songs from the album resonated the deepest with fans of the band?
Ok, this is a tough question to answer. On a personal level, I think 'Hell Is Empty' the best thing I ever did personally. For that time in my life, I captured everything I wanted to say and feel on that album. I think it’s the best thing we as a band ever did as well. We really fleshed out our sound on that record. I think when it comes to reception people wanted it to sound like 'Prepare to Be Let Down' and it didn’t. We didn’t want it to either.
Maybe it could have been mixed different but looking back I think it was a very decisive record for us. Either people love it or they hate it. Personally, I love it.
By that point in Ruiner’s run, you were true road dogs. How much touring did you do for that album, and how much of a toll did it personally take on you?
It was tough because the moment we finished recording that record our drummer Joey was ready to move on. He had gotten married and wanted to start his career as a teacher also get to work on being a dad. We had to find a new drummer and teach him 3 records worth of music. We hit the road hard after that.
From 2009 thru 2010, we toured as much as we could. I think it took a little bit out of us. I won’t say that’s the reason we broke up, but it played heavily into the decision. We didn’t feel like the same group when we were together. Something wasn’t as fun. Overall, we were all starting to think about other aspects of our lives in a more serious manner.
In 2010, Ruiner announced the band’s break up, and you said this at the time: "We aren't the kind of band who wants to release records and rarely play the music, so we decided it is now an appropriate time to hang it up.” How hard was it to come to that decision? Was everyone on board?
I was the one who brought up the conversation. I wasn’t happy touring anymore and I think everyone felt different degrees of the same. Maybe we just didn’t enjoy touring together. I think we always said that if the original three aren’t happy we all have to step back. Myself, Danny, and Steve being the original three members at that point.
How did it feel coming back to play shows again? Was there any point where you thought to yourself: “Maybe we should bring the band back and go for it again?”
We all still stay in touch. I think the tipping point was Joey bringing it up. If Joey was down, I think all of us were going to be willing to do something. Joe Hardcore told a mutual friend he would be interested in having us on This Is Hardcore and the rest was sort of history.
Listen, I know myself and I know my ego. I love me some attention, but I want it to be genuine as well. It felt right to play some more shows. Everyone was on the same page where we will make this work if we can. We didn’t want to stress anyone out and make them regret getting back in the van.
What’s the status of Ruiner today? Are you open to playing the occasional show together?
Current status… limbo?
We talk about playing often. This year is 20 years since we started, and I really wanted to do something. Lining it up seemed like a headache so it just didn’t happen. I even had a hold on a local venue in October.
One day, I got an email saying they accidentally double-booked for this monthly dance party. They weren’t willing to move the dance party and I wasn’t willing to change the date due to it being the exact day of our 20th anniversary. That was a disheartening thing and honestly it was just a hold. I am not even sure if we would have put anything together.
Nowadays, we are all very busy and with two members in different states it makes it that much harder. Somethings have been said to us and maybe in 2025 you can expect an announcement.
Before I let you go, I wanted to ask you about your time as an MMA fighter. I read that you were a wrestler from a young age. What is it about combat sports that drew you in then and now?
I used to balance wrestling practice and band practice. I would go from one to the other all through high school. Wrestling is probably the most important thing I ever did in my life. I say this because had it not been for that sport I wouldn’t have had that same work ethic I applied to touring or really anything else.
I had a lot of friends trying BJJ and MMA so I would dabble between tours. By the end of the band, I was actively training when we were home. I had no plans of fighting initially but once the band ended, I realized real life was still pretty boring. I just rolled straight into another life of being broke and wondering what came next.
Tell me a bit about Get Wrecked Fitness. What do you offer there and can beginners sign up to work with you? It sounds very intimidating!
I own a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym in Essex, Maryland (the town I grew up in). It's called Baltimore Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I bought the building and business from my former coach in 2021. Get Wrecked Fitness was the personal training business I started in 2016.
I was studying for my personal trainer certifications while Ruiner was still touring. It took me years to get my shit together to finally take all the tests. Now I operate both businesses out of the same building.
The trainer side is mostly for focused on grapplers/wrestlers. I also train some mothers of members of the gym who just want to get in shape. I stay extremely busy with both businesses as they have been growing steady for the past few years.
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Check out Get Wrecked Fitness to find out more about Robert's gym and programs. Robert's Instagram page is here.
Tagged: 2000s hardcore week, ruiner
