Beginning in the mid-2000s, Naysayer began waving the flag for VAHC. Formed in the fertile hardcore scene in Richmond, Virginia, the band quickly carved out a place alongside peers like Down to Nothing and Bracewar, with releases on Reaper Records helping cement their legacy.
Frontman Gary Gunwald has always been at the center of that identity—channeling personal struggles, scene energy, and years on the road into lyrics that hit just as hard now as they did back then. From early shows at Richmond staples like Twisters to full US tours and European runs, Naysayer’s story is tied closely to the rise of modern hardcore in the late 2000s and early 2010s.
Through it all, Naysayer's path hasn’t been linear. After a heavy run of touring and the release of their lone LP Laid to Rest, life pulled members in different directions, slowing things down without ever fully closing the door. In recent years, that door has opened again, with a new EP, Rage Dreams, arriving in 2025 and renewed activity both at home in Richmond and abroad.
Currently out on tour in Europe with Risk It!, I caught up with Gunwald via text message to dig into the band's early days, the Richmond scene that shaped them, the ups and downs that followed, and what still keeps Naysayer going.
Where did you grow up, and what was your childhood like? Were you always into music?
Funny, I’m in Europe right now in the van with Gregor from Risk It! And we were just talking about this.
I was born in Frankfurt, Germany, on a US military base, but we were only there a couple of months before we shipped back to the States. So I grew up in Virginia, about 30 minutes South of Richmond.
My childhood was pretty normal for the most part. My parents pretty much only listened to country music, which I wasn’t really a fan of. But it was all I knew until I started hearing whatever was on the radio.
The first stuff I started getting into was like Nirvana and hip-hop on MTV and BET. More obvious and accessible shit. In 7th grade, I found skateboarding and became obsessed. That’s where music really came in big time. I found out about Dinosaur Jr, Wu-Tang, and Minor Threat all super early, and it was all life-changing.
Did you have a group of friends at school that were also into hardcore?
I had a couple of guys a few years older than me who I skated with; they were my gateway. I asked one of them if they knew who Minor Threat was after hearing them in a skateboarding video. My friend Bruce let me borrow the complete discography CD, and it was on.
Do you remember what your first hardcore show was?
My first show was Bouncing Souls and The Explosion in the summer of 1999 at a club called Twisters in Richmond, which became a place where I saw countless shows. My first hardcore show was either a Sick of It All show or a more local show with bands like Count Me Out and Dead Serious; I can never remember which was first.
I had so much stuff hitting me all at once. The guys getting me into stuff were kind of on the way out. I was basically finding things from Victory Style and Punk-O-Rama CD comps. And whatever I was hearing in their cars when we were out skating.
What were some of the local hardcore bands that had an impact on you back then?
I was very lucky going to shows in Richmond coming up. So many great bands. Count Me Out, Dead Serious, Avail, Wheelbite, Down to Nothing, Murder Weapon. There were so many.
I was a bit of an angry kid. My father and I didn’t agree on much and often butted heads. As I got into skating and started doing badly in school, of course, that got worse the older I got. So when I found Dead Serious in particular, I thought “man, this dude sounds so fucking pissed off,” and it made me think I wasn’t so fucked up for being so angry. Then, realizing they were local, it was just huge for me.
When did you go from spectator to participant?
Man, I was a spectator for a while [laughs] I did one band before Naysayer called Riot Squad, but we only played a handful of shows, and that was probably in 2005. Naysayer started in 2007.
I knew I wanted to be in a band as soon as I started going to shows. I was in love with hardcore and knew it had to happen. It just took a while to get the pieces in place.
What do you remember about making the demo, and how do you feel about it now when you hear it?
Oh man, the demo almost didn’t happen [laughs]. So the original bass player, Charles, and I talked about doing a band, and of course, I was all about it.
He went on vacation with his family and happened to start a different band with some other friends. So when he got back, our band (idea) kinda fell to the wayside. But the band they started didn’t last more than a couple of months. So we started jamming and came up with those songs kinda quickly, as far as I remember. Listening back, I don’t love it [laughs]. But that’s mostly because of my vocal performance. I’m a bit of a self-loather, but I also had no idea what I was doing.
READ ALSO: Count Me Out Vocalist Jason Mazzola Tells the 2000s Hardcore Band’s Story
How were the early Naysayer shows like, especially locally? Did you have to work hard to get on "good" shows, or did things happen quickly on that front?
Early shows locally were great; we were lucky to have so many friends who would always come out and go crazy. We started hitting the road on little weekends pretty quickly, and we were lucky on that front as well. We were friends with the Down to Nothing and Bracewar guys, and they hooked us up a lot.
How did the band connect with Patrick at Reaper Records? That label did so much for hardcore in that era.
Man, again, we were so lucky with that, too. Patrick saw us play at an earlier United Blood and fucked with us. So he introduced himself and stayed in touch. Then he asked us to do a song on the Mercy For None comp, and we were fucking stoked. After that, we kept playing out more, kept in touch, and became fast friends. We wound up doing the No Remorse EP with him. And then every release was with him until the most recent one, which we did ourselves
READ MORE: A Conversation About Hardcore with Patrick Kitzel (True Blue, Reaper Records)
I see Patrick when he comes out here to Los Angeles, and we get into hardcore music shop talk.
Huge props to Patrick Kitzel and the whole Reaper crew. He did so much for us, and that was such an awesome era and squad to be a part of. I love PK.
Talk to me a bit about No Remorse. I am pretty certain it was my introduction to the band that made me instantly hooked. What were some of the musical influences you all brought into the mix for that material?
Damn, that’s cool to hear! No Remorse was the first thing we recorded in a real studio. Everything else, including the comp song, was done in a friend’s kitchen. So that was a big deal to us; it felt like we were doing something “real.”
And piggybacking off that, when we actually got the vinyl in hand, that was the coolest shit ever. We’re nerds about hardcore, collected records, and all that. So having our own record was a trip.
As far as influences go, these might be obvious, but on that EP Down to Nothing, Terror, Madball, and Death Threat were all huge for us. Some of our favorites still today. And all the bands we saw a lot coming up, so having that live experience on top of their records was so inspiring.
How did you approach lyrics when writing for Naysayer back then?
With the lyrics, I always kinda just write about my life experiences. Whatever I’m dealing with or going through. So the lyrics on that early material were just the ramblings of an angry mid-20s dickhead.
Some of it’s hard to look back at now, at 43 [laughs]. Maybe the way I phrased things or whatever. But at the same time, it’s all part of the journey, and people relate to shit like that. We all go through a lot of the same things in life.
How much touring was Naysayer doing around that time?
We toured a fuck ton from 2009-2013. Those were the peak years for sure. Lots of full US tours and a few European ones. We got to tour with so many bands we loved, bands we grew up on, and current ones.
It’s a weird but awesome relationship you get to build with other people in bands through touring. You experience this slice of life that most people never do, where you can get thrown into all kinds of crazy situations. We did great tours and horrible tours, but they all hold a special place, ya know?
What did your family think about the band and what you were doing? Did they have a clue?
I don’t have a big family, pretty much just my parents. And at that time, we weren’t very close. As I kinda said earlier, I wasn’t very close to my dad. We had a bad falling out and didn’t talk for a long time. So they were aware, but weren’t too involved. I think they were happy I was doing something I cared about.
It’s funny because the last song on our LP [the title track to 2011’s Laid to Rest] is about my father and my rocky relationship. And I gave him a copy of that LP, but I don’t think he looked at it. We never talked about it.
READ MORE: Over My Dead Body’s Daniel Sant on Their Legacy, and ‘00s Hardcore
I hadn't listened to the Down But Not Out EP for many years, but I threw it on while prepping for this, and it still rips. The first track, "Your Fate," is a winner. What can you share about that record?
We put that out between the No Remorse EP and the Laid to Rest LP. Getting the LP together was taking a little longer than we thought, so we kinda put that out to keep us in people’s minds
We used the comp song “Left Behind,” two songs from the LP [“DJD” and “Down But No Out”], and that song, “Your Fate,” which was exclusive to that EP. We were still playing our album a lot and thought it would be cool to drop that EP and then have the LP hit kinda right after.
For Laid to Rest, you worked with Will Yip in the studio. He’s gone on to become one of the bigger producers in the hardcore and hardcore-adjacent world. What was it like recording the album with him? What did he bring to the sessions that you hadn’t had in the past?
Will was awesome, he’s the man. Our friends in Title Fight and Dead End Path linked us up with him. That was both a dope and frustrating experience at the same time.
We stayed up there for a week, I think, to record the 'Laid to Rest' album, and it was definitely a cool experience overall. easily the craziest studio we’d ever been to. But I started getting these headaches while recording vocals, which is the frustrating part. Every time I would yell, it hurt, but then immediately after, it was like the most intense feeling, like something was squeezing my skull. It was brutal. But that was only for one of the days, if I remember right
Will was really good at getting you to give your best, though. We hadn’t met him before then, and he was so comfortable to work with.
Since it's the sole Naysayer album, I'm curious to hear your favorite songs from it.
Hmm, that’s tough. Different ones are favorites for different reasons. I’d say “Follow Blind,” “Labeled,” and “Down But Not Out” have always stood out to me
I was always hyped on “ Undertow " because I borrowed some lines from a Jadakiss song. But that one never really took, I think we’ve only played it once ever.
Did you guys take a break from recording by design after the LP, or did something else happen? It was quite a while til we got the Nation of Greed EP.
It kind of just happened. We toured really hard on that LP. A lot of awesome ones, but a couple not-so-good ones for varied reasons. And I think we kind of burnt ourselves out a bit
So we kinda took a little breather, but we were never done. But with anything, the more you do or don’t do something, the more normal it becomes. People started working, and jobs and regular life stuff kinda started taking over. Before you know it, we’re barely playing out at all.
We were still playing random one-offs. Maybe a weekend here and there, but it was few and far between for sure. We got the itch to write and play out more, and that’s kind of how Nation of Greed came to be. So we wrote and recorded that, and then, completely unintentionally, had the least productive year ever after releasing it.
I honestly think we put that record out and played maybe 10 shows. It sucked.
Why was that? You would think releasing that EP would have lit the spark to go out there and play as much as your schedules allowed.
Yes, that’s what we thought too [laughs].
Did it just get too tough to navigate work and family responsibilities by that point?
In a sense, yeah. After we released Nation of Greed, things got a bit complicated.
I was super burnt out from touring and was trying to be home more. I also had a job at the time that was a little harder for me to tour with. A couple of other people had more serious job situations and/or relationships going on. Our drummer, Petey, who actually wrote most of the NOG EP, couldn’t tour anymore at the time. He and our bassist, Tom, are both from Syracuse and had moved back up at that point as well.
So we kind of had a lot going on, things sort of fell apart for a minute there. It’s a bit involved; there were many factors. We were all psyched on that EP, but we just found ourselves in a weird spot timing-wise…Which is the opposite of what you want right after putting out a record [laughs].
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you didn’t start any other projects during that time before the Rage Dreams EP.
I did not. Scott, Sam, and Scott have another band, Earth to Heaven, that started during that window. They have a couple EPs out.
We did actually do a band called Scene Report in 2012-ish. Which was just a demo tape. We wrote some songs and recorded a demo just for fun bc we were all living together. Played a handful of shows. It was kind of a fun project just to open shows
There was actually another band like that we did with some of the guys from Bracewar and Friend or Foe called Streets of Hate that I forgot about until right now. Same deal wrote a couple songs just to have a local that could open shows. We never even recorded anything. That was probably like 2010ish (I’m guessing).
What led to the return and the writing/recording of the Rage Dreams EP in 2025?
A few things. For one, Tom moved back down to Richmond (where he belongs). Also, our boy Sam started playing drums with us. Having Tom back and Sam in the mix breathed a little life into things, I think.
We’d been playing more and talking about writing new stuff for a while, and it didn’t happen for one reason or another.
Tom started bringing some songs and ideas to practice, and that really got everyone hyped. We started practicing every week, and they would jam and work out different arrangements. And the songs came together. We figured we’d just keep writing until we were happy with what we had, and not get hung up on a certain number of songs or anything like that.
It sounds like Tom played a huge part in making shit happen.
Tom really brought a lot to the table for Rage Dreams, and just jamming off those ideas, it really came together. Sam has been a long-time friend and 6th man. He’s always been close in the Naysayer circle and has filled in on guitar and bass with us in the past. He actually recorded Nation of Greed. He also recorded Rage Dreams minus the drums at Space Bomb Studios with our friend Ricky Olson. So there were a few factors.
How have the shows been since then? I know you're out in Europe right now with Risk It! Also, how are hometown shows like these days as elder statesmen?
Shows are always different everywhere, you know? For the most part, we’ve been lucky and have pretty good shows, but sometimes it’s just not your night [laughs].
Richmond is awesome, the scene is really good right now, even with the lack of good smaller venues. There’s a new crop of kids doing a bunch of great bands, which is great. And we’re very lucky to always have dope shows at home. Shout out to the Richmond youth, Lose Sight, Against The World, No Paradise, Dimension Six. There’s a lot happening. Of course, our brothers in Division of Mind and Killing Pace.
How is your voice holding up, now that you are an old man?
[Laughs] Oh man, the voice thing is funny getting older. One or two shows is fine, but anything more and I start blowing that shit out, [laughs] it sucks.
But I think that comes with age, not playing all the time now. Tonight’s the first of 5 shows in Europe, so we’ll see how it’s going in a couple of days. I have faith, though.
What kind of work do you do these days? Are you a family man?
I work in a warehouse for a giant HVAC company. I’m essentially the assistant manager, so I help with a lot of things. But it’s a lot of manual labor, driving forklifts, and whatnot.
And I am not a family man. I live with my best friend Scott, who plays guitar in Naysayer. We’ve been in the same spot for 15-16 years [laughs]. It’s been the band house forever; there have been a few different lineups of friends living there over the years, but we’re the only two left. It’s fucking, sick to be honest.
OK, wrapping up here, I have a couple of more questions. What would be one song you would choose from the Naysayer discography that you think best captures the essence of the band?
Fuck, that’s hard. I’m gonna say “Demoralize” from Rage Dreams. I know it’s a new one, but I think it really represents our sound and has lyrics we can all stand behind.
Last question: Gun to the head, what is your all-time favorite Richmond Hardcore record (LP or EP)?
Fuck you, man. That’s so hard! [Laughs] This answer could change daily, but right now in this moment, I am saying Down to Nothing - The Most or Fire & Ice - Not of This Earth. I’ve been jamming both a lot lately.
***
Rage Dreams is available on vinyl via Edgewood Records.
Naysayer on social media: Instagram
Tagged: naysayer
