Jack Grisham is a man who needs no introduction to No Echo readers, but in case you somehow missed it, he’s fronted T.S.O.L., Tender Fury, Cathedral of Tears, and the Joykiller.
Now he’s back with a new project alongside Lars Triesch called Jack Grisham and the Life Undone. Their first single is out now, with a full-length arriving July 10 via Lost in Berlin Records. If you’re expecting T.S.O.L. 2.0, this isn’t that—but it’s still unmistakably Jack doing something new and worth your time.
I spoke with the California punk icon about his new musical chapter in the interview below. You can also watch the full conversation via my new A Hardcore Conversation page on YouTube.
Good to see you again.
Yeah, you too. How’s it going?
Good, good. How are things out there?
Alright. I’ve just been listening to guys racing up and down the street in front of my house. My motorcycle shop is right across the street, so if I need my bike worked on, I just drop it off and walk back to the office. But yeah, I hear them all day.
I didn’t know you rode. What do you ride?
A fucking lounge chair—big, classic Harley. It’s like a thousand pounds. I messed my leg up last week because I forgot it’s not some little Enduro or sport bike. You put your foot down wrong and suddenly you’ve got a thousand pounds of torque on your leg. These things don’t stop quickly either—you’re doing 100, it takes forever to slow down. Sometimes I get on it and immediately think, “Ah, shit. That was a mistake.”
That’s just like life.
Yeah, exactly.
I want to get into Life Undone, but since this is A Hardcore Conversation, I have to ask about TSOL. How was that last show, and was it really the last?
Well, I mean, it is for me now. You know, I don't know what they're going to do. I mean, I'm not sure what they're going to do. It was just something...Alright, I don't want to be an asshole about anything. I don't want to be an asshole. A lot of these bands, they use their band as a bank. It's basically they're just making withdrawals.
You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, I get it. They put the time in. That's great. They're making withdrawals. But, creatively, that's not cutting it for me. You know, I want to make stuff. I want to, you know, just I don't want to just sit there and do country fair tours where, you know, you play the hits every night and whatever else is going on. It's like, yeah, it's great. And it's fun, but it's not satisfying.
I hear you.
It's just not satisfying, and nothing against guys that do it. I know guys who do it, and they're very successful, and they make a lot of money at it. And I could have made a lot of money at it, but I'm not willing to do it.
Yeah, I get it. A little bit of integrity is involved.
Well, let's not go crazy. But yeah. You know, it was just feeling strange to me. It just wasn't feeling good anymore.
Yeah, well then that means it's time to stop.
Yeah, and I was stopped completely, like, I did not want to play any more music. I thought, okay, because somebody asked what are you going to do now? It's like, well, I'm gonna write books and make movies. That's what I want to do now, you know. And so making another record was the furthest thing from my mind, you know, and I was fried. I was burned out. I felt sorry for Lars (Triesch), the guy who wrote the record with, you know, I wasn't always the best camper to work with. Some crotchety 64-year-old man.
Because he's in his 40s or something, right?
Yeah, he's in his 40s. "You punks, you kids, goddammit, messing around at a man's studio!" [Both laugh]
Did he design your house there? He's an interior designer, right?
He is, but no. No, actually, Lars' house where we recorded the record is crazy. I don't know if you know, but I think I'm pronouncing it right, Ray Kappe or whatever. I think that's his. If you look up the guy, a modern architect. Look, I don't know anything about this stuff. That's like me talking, you know, talking heart valves or something. I got no idea what I'm talking about, but he got this old guy right before he died to design a house for him.
And then Lars basically built the house in Germany, and people were telling him, Hey, you can't afford to do this. He goes, I'll figure it out. And he basically figured it out. And so it's this bitchen house that looks like it was pulled out of California, like something that was pulled out of the Big Sur area or Carmel or something, and was moved to the outskirts of Berlin. And it's just this bitchen house, you know, glass, wood, concrete, you know, just gorgeous house. And we recorded in the basement. There's like a studio basement place, and that's where we recorded. Really, really cool.
I was unfamiliar with Lars, so I Googled him, and I'm not sure how to pronounce his name properly.
Yeah, I never googled him, so you're ahead of me!
There's a pretty cool article in the Berliner newspaper that talks about that house and how he does tours there or something and stuff like that.
Yeah, Lars is a good dude, and he runs, see he he got out of music in the '90s. But that's what he wanted to do, he wanted to play music, but then he fell in love with a girl, she got pregnant, they're gonna have a family, so he basically gave up music, and he opened this store, and he does like a lot of modern design stuff, you know and then outside art projects and all sorts of stuff like that. So him making this record was kind of like like doing something he put away when he was in his 20s.
So this is his return to music after a while, then? I don't know when he retired.
Yeah, I guess. I think it's been since the '90s for him. So, I think it was just...it was just kind of like, it wasn't really a serious thing that we were making a record, it was like, oh yeah, you want to make a record? Sure. What do you want to do? I don't know. Just kind of, you know, there was no real plan. And then the cool thing was not having a band, and it was like, "Well, what do we want to do today? Oh, let's try something like this." And we were just fooling around because there was no judgment on anything.
Like, it wasn't something where I'd sit there and go, well, you know, we're not going to play that live. That's not going to happen. But we didn't have to worry about it because we're just going to record it. So who cares? You know? I mean, okay, I'm just going to say this name. It's like the Beatles in the end when they said, "Hey, we're not going to tour anymore. We just want to make records." I mean, that's pretty... That's a pretty free spot to be, you know? Because you're not worrying about it. It's like, you know, it's like... Lars and I didn't have to be anything you know it's like, oh I want to just try this for the hell of it and now let's try this and let's do, you know, and of course being the background that I come from and that Lars comes from there are songs that are faster tempo whatever stuff but there's all sorts of stuff on this record.
So how did songwriting work? Isn't he a drummer, or at least used to be?
He is the drummer. He's the drummer for the band, yeah. So it was kind of weird. And Lars said something that was like a compliment. It was kind of like a backhanded compliment. Like, the Germans are really crazy. They'll tell you, "Oh, I like your look, uh, today, but uh, your hair, your hair is just ridiculously dumb today." You know, it's just like, it sounds like a compliment, but it's not a compliment, do you know what I mean? "You look so good, but this black t-shirt, what is this, it does nothing for you."
You know it's like, so anyway, Lars says to me as we're working, Lars goes, "I wasn't aware you were this good." I'm like, "What does that mean? You weren't aware that I was this good?" He goes, "Well, you don't, you've never taken credit for any of the things you're doing, so how do I know?"
So getting back to the writing, here's what we did. Lars got an acoustic guitar, and I have a piano. So we would get on the computer, and he's in Berlin, and I'm here. So we'd get on the computer, and he'd be over there. I'd be here, and we'd basically be writing like you and I sitting here now. Uh-huh. Trouble is... From here to Berlin, there's a three-second delay.
Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
So I'm going to start saying the alphabet, and when you hit the letter you want me to stop on, you say stop, right? A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A. Well, I'm already on H. Where are you? Where are you at? It's like, no, no, man, I'm on D, bitch. I'm on D. So it would be so crazy because...you know, you'd be playing something and you, oh wait, wait, wait. That, that, that. Well, what? What, what? That, well, that's the note you just played. Well, what note did I play?
Well, the fucking thing right there, the one you just played, but it's not the one he just played because now he's three seconds further or I'd be three seconds further on the piano or whatever. So it was crazy. And then the other thing is, he'd have the acoustic guitar. If he's showing me something, I don't play guitar. I don't know what's going on. And what am I going to do? Turn the piano, hold it like this with all my fingers so he can see where I'm playing? And so we'd say, hey, C, C, C, G, D, E, no, C, C, C.
And then the other weird thing is B, like boy, B, the Germans don't have a B, they have an H. It's an H, it's not a B, it goes back to medieval music or whatever. You know, there is no B. There's not a natural B in the German scale. It's real trippy. It's an H.
But I mean, you're saying a B is just called an H, but it's not the same note even?
It is the same note. It's just not called the same. So it's like, go to H. No, there's no H. There's no H!
B, motherfucker, B!
Yeah, and literally, it would be me screaming because he's much more centered than I am. So literally, God, fuck! What the fuck? Just going crazy. And then he would send something, I would work on it and send it back, and then we'd get together and play it together. And then finally he came here for a week, and we got to sit knee-to-knee in my office and just – you know, we got to sit here knee-to-knee and just go over it. And then I went to Berlin, and that's where we recorded in Berlin.
You guys are mutual friends with Ed Colver?
Yeah. Well, that's how...So Lars and I met Lars at the Punk Rock Museum in Las Vegas. I was doing tours, and Ed was there for a photo exhibit. So Lars came over because he's going to do a photo exhibit of Ed in Berlin, and so that's how we ended up meeting. We met at the Punk Rock Museum.
Okay. So two guys who are retired from music, you and Lars, suddenly decide to make music together.
Yeah, it's so crazy. It's just one of those weird things. I used to tell people there's this thing. It's called going on a thriller. So I can make a plan of how my day goes. I'm going to go here. I'm going to go there. I'm going to go pick up my wife here. I'm going to do this. That's my day. There's my plan. But now, on the way to pick up my wife, there's been an accident. And I've got to turn down this street. And I turned down this street, and here's a dude I haven't seen for years on the corner waving to me. He needs a ride. I get him in the car. He wants to go to Santa Ana. I'm driving there. So now I'm on a thriller. I've got no idea what the fuck.
The plan was jettisoned a long time ago. Who knows where the hell I'm going, and I'm just going to go and see what happens. I just want to be surprised. Like this record. Like, hey, we're on a thriller, man. I got no idea. I'm way out of my element. I'm going to Berlin to make a record. I'm working with all Germans. And it was funny because they spoke English, but that's not their first language. So finally I'd say, look, just speak German, man. Because if you're speaking English, then I gotta pretend that I'm interested in what you're saying to me, and I really don't care. I'm not interested. You know, so just speak German, and I'm going to sit here like I'm on mushrooms, not knowing what the hell's going on because I'm working with basically all German guys. My buddy Trevor (Lucca) was with me playing guitar, but then Trevor came and went home too. So it was all these Germans. So then the producer Kurt (Ebelhäuser), who is just great, such a great producer. Kurt goes okay, we can do this, but there are a few things that I must tell you.
One thing you must learn is the schlimmster. I'm like, the schlimmster? What the fuck is the schlimmster? He goes, when we play a note or make a move that is just awful, just go, the schlimmster, the schlimmster. And that means this is the absolute worst. Right? And then the other one's rough. We don't really say it in America. He goes, and if something is so shocking to you, just say, das ist (sounds like Jack is saying, "behind it" but I don't know what the German word is, and I'm like, das ist 'behind it" What the fuck does that mean? And it basically means, are you slow? Are you retarded? What the fuck are you doing? You know. das ist behind it? It's just really, that's what you're doing. So those were the two phrases I learned in German.
I gotta remember that one, the schlimmster.
It basically comes in good nowhere else. There's really nothing you can use it as.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like I hear a lot of '60s- and' 70s-style pop in your vocal melodies.
Yeah, well, I love that shit.
Yeah. I was going to say I thought I remembered talking to you about that last time we spoke, that you were into that.
Yeah. Well, it's really funny. A lot of it – I got this theory. It's a legitimate theory. I don't think a song is a song unless you can just sing it in the car. Or one guy with an acoustic guitar on the beach can play it, and it's good. That's it. I like a lot of rap stuff, but they're not songs. It's poetry. It's not really songs. You can't sing rap unless you're a human beatbox or something. You know what I mean? It's not really a song. So if you listen to the songs off The Life Undone, they're songs. You know, you can play them anywhere. You can sing them, you can play them, you can do them fast, you can do them slow, you can do jazz versions of them, you can do country western versions of them. It doesn't matter. They're just songs.
I get it. There's actually somebody who put out a country album of Black Flag songs a few years ago that has Kira and Dez on it. It's really good.
I've heard it. Well, it's like when they used to do lounge songs, Black Velvet Flag was one of the first ones. You know, they were doing punk rock lounge songs.
Yeah. Or like the Circle Jerks in Repo Man.
Yeah. And I like that. It's like because it's a song. It's really a song.
Yeah, for sure. So wait, this guy Trevor, he was in T.S.O.L., right?
So Trevor has his own band, but Trevor has played in T.S.O.L. He covered for our bassist, Mike Roche, when Mike couldn't do something. He covered for Ron Emory, our guitarist, when Ron was injured. So yeah, I've played with Trevor on and off. Trevor's played in other bands with me, too. What do they call that?
He's got his own band, and he's great, but he also plays with a lot of people. DI, Love Crimes, T.S.O.L. He's just a great musician who basically can just play anything. So I called Trevor and asked him if he wanted to come over and play on this. And yeah, of course he did. And he flew to Germany and played on it also.
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Awesome. Wait, so he's the only guitar player on the album?
No, no. Kurt, the producer, is playing guitar, Trevor's playing guitar, and Lars actually plays some acoustic guitar too. It was kind of like when we were making the record, it was like we had Trevor, Lars was playing drums, Trevor was playing guitar, but then Kurt also plays guitar. It's kind of like, "Well, who wants to play bass on this? Okay, I'll play the bass."
You know, especially with Kurt and Michel [Wern]. Kurt was the producer, Michel was the engineer. You know, when we needed something, they just said, "Okay, I'll play it. I'll do it." Because the band really is only kind of Lars and I. Really, there isn't a band. I keep telling Lars, it's not a band. There's no band.
Are you going to play shows at all?
No. Absolutely not. Never. I don't have any desire to play shows.
Okay, like even if the folks behind No Values festival called you up and wanted you next year or something?
Somebody already did.
Oh, you said no?
I said no.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, my wife said I was out of my mind. She's like, you're crazy! What are you doing? You know, I just said no. I mean, I don't know what...it's no for now. You never know. What do they say? Never say never.
Right, right.
But as far as I can see right now, I can't see myself playing another show. I mean, unless it would have to be like, I wouldn't even know how to do it. Like with this band, it would be so difficult because Lars is in Berlin. I'm here. It's not really worth it. Like if the record was selling a lot of records, blah, blah, blah, then maybe we could afford to go do it. But I can't afford to lose money playing shows.
Well, yeah. So what's the label it's coming out on?
Lost In Berlin is the label. Well, it was just a label that was made specifically for this.
Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you...
Yeah, it was just kind of the label was made specifically for this project. I mean, as far as we know today, there won't be any other bands on this, but there could be. Who knows? Lars may say, "Hey, I want to put out these guys on this and do it." Whatever.
You didn't try Epitaph or anything like that?
No. No, we didn't talk to anybody, basically. Actually, it's funny cause I sent a message to Brett [Gurewitz, Epitaph Records owner and Bad Religion guitarist] because when I was making this record, I was thinking of him because we did some stuff in the '90s that kind of reminded me a little bit of the production on this. So, you know, I sent it to Brett, but we didn't actively pursue anybody.
What did you and Brett do in the '90s? Did it come out, or is it unreleased?
Yeah, it was the Joykiller stuff.
Oh, I didn't know he was involved in that. Obviously, I know Joykiller.
Yeah, we did some stuff together. It was pretty fun.
That's cool.
But yeah, we just didn't really, we just thought, record labels, they want you to tour. They want you to do stuff. It's like, we're just going to make a record and put it out.
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I remember the last time I talked to you, about two years ago, when that last T.S.O.L. record was coming out, and you kind of told me then that you guys were done, that it was going to be over, and I was like, I'm sure the label is super happy about that!
[Laughs] Yeah, it's just not, you know, it's fucking...I mean, look at me crying. I'm not crying. I appreciate everything. I appreciate everything that's happened for me. You know, I appreciate getting to go all over the world. I've been to China. You know, it's like I've been all over playing shows. You know, I'm stoked. But also, you're giving up a lot. You give up your family. You give up everything at home. It's like, you know, some of these guys I know they're just gone all the time. It's like, nah.
You know, my wife means more to me than going on tour, and of course, my community, what I do at home, the people that I'm with, they mean more to me than having somebody say, "Jack, you're great," and whatever. I don't need it. Some people need that, you know, God bless them, whatever. You know what I'm saying? They need to be that. I don't.
Yeah, I hear you. So I do have one complaint, though, man. Speaking of Joykiller and T.S.O.L., the Life Undone record does not have any songs about necrophilia.
[Laughs] No, it doesn't. Yeah. Wait, I had to think about that for a second. Just hang on a minute. Maybe there might be something on that!
I listened to it a few times. I listened to it again today. I was like, maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't hear it.
Yeah, I'm trying to think if there is, I'll have to really put some thought into that!
You might have to do another single or an EP!
Yeah, I mean a lot of it, you know, it's funny because a lot of it is a little depressing in parts, you know.
I mean, not really, just like people thought Lou Reed was depressing, I guess, but I didn't think so, you know what I mean, like the Berlin album or whatever.
No, I don't either, but I'm just saying that, yeah, no necrophilia. I guess I screwed up on this one.
You really let us down, Jack! So what do you think...
Now wait, hang on. "...I needed a thief." Wait, I was thinking about it! There's a line in there that says, "I needed a thief in my grave, you lifted, you breathed. I was the one that you saved." So there is death in it. It took me a minute, but I caught it!
Nice! How do you feel about Lars' assessment of you as a "Querulant"?
Yeah, trouble. You know, look, I don't play well with others. I mean, that's just it. It's like when it comes to, I mean, look, I see things how I see them. I don't believe in compromise. You know, compromise is a lose-lose. It's not a win-win. It's a lose. You both lose. You know? I just don't believe in it. So I struggle with dealing with people. Like, I mean, the one thing, like if we're working on a film or whatever, and let's say you're the cinematographer, you're the director of photography, whatever the hell it is. I love your work. So I'm going to sit back, and I'm going to let you be in charge because I love your work.
But the bottom line is I'm in charge of the whole deal. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like the bottom line is it stops here. If I don't like what you're doing, I'm going to say we're not doing it. No, sorry. that being said I want you to be you I want you to do the best ever and so when I play in a band with somebody I want the drummer to be the best I want the guitar player to shine I want everybody in the band to be the best so I'm not looking to be, overshadow me please, it's like I benefit from you being great!
But the bottom line is, you know, you can't have four chiefs in the thing. It's just a fucking mess. It's just fighting. It's a mess. And, you know, some people work hard, and other people don't do their work, whatever. So yeah. Am I hard to get along with? Am I a prick sometimes? Yeah, I'm a fucking prick. I'm a prick. You expect me to do what I do, and I expect you to do what you do. And if you don't do what you do, I'm going to fucking be an asshole about it. Now I want you to, I don't wanna tell you what to do. I want you to do what you do. The reason I'm working with you is because I think you're great. So be great. But if you're not gonna be great, then I'm gonna be an asshole.
I hear ya, that makes sense. A lot of people don't realize that kind of thing. You can't have four people in charge of a project.
Yeah, and I got no problem stepping back and saying, "Hey, you know what? You know about this better than I do. Do it, man. You run this." Like in the Joykiller, when I was working with Sean Greaves. Sean Greaves was the band director. He was great. Now, I had the final say on what we were doing. But when we figured out what we were doing, Sean was great at going, okay, the drums, they got to flow here. And I'm going, yeah, man. Great, great. I was stoked.
I've got no problem sitting back. There was a great line. This rabbi, he had kept two pieces of the Torah in his pocket. One said that you must step forward and lead, the other one said you must defer to wisdom. Step back and let someone else go. I implement that. Man, I work with people that are great. I want them to be great. I want them to be great. I expect them to be great. You know? I mean, that's it. It's really not egotistical.
I don't think so.
[Jack sticks his tongue out sarcastically and both laugh] Yeah, I mean, it's like if I go to the doctor and the doctor is going to operate on my leg, man, I went there because he's a good doctor. You know, I'm not going to go in there and tell him how to fucking, you know, clamp an artery or something.
And if he's asking you how to do it, hey, wait a minute, you know?
Yeah. Or he's not showing up. We got a problem, man. I'm going to fucking yell at him. So am I rough? Yeah, I'm fucking rough. Yeah. I'm rough.
But, you know, if it gets results, then I guess it speaks for itself.
Right? I guess. I mean, I don't mind when people, if I'm supposed to do something and I don't do what I'm supposed to do, I accept the beating that I get for it. You know what I mean? If I'm supposed to have the lyrics done by Monday, and it's Monday and I don't have anything done, they're yelling at me. Goddamn right, they're yelling at me. I fucked up. Yeah. I deserve to be yelled at. I dicked off.
Yeah. What do you think Maximumrocknroll or Flipside would say about this record?
I don't give a fuck. You know, it's like, I mean, I just...Here would be my question. What would you say about this record? Okay. What would you say about these guys that haven't changed in 50 fucking years?
Good point.
Let's talk about that. I remember when I was a kid, getting into punk rock, we were looking at bands like Journey and fucking REO Speedwagon and saying these guys were fucking dinosaurs. Dinosaur rock. Now, how old were they? 30 something. 30, 32, 33, dinosaurs stuck in their ways. I see these guys who are supposedly in this forward-thinking punk always saying "whatever," wearing the same clothes, sounding exactly the same as they have for 50 years. Now what's the fucking problem? Am I the fucking problem, or is that the fucking problem?
I hear you. That is a fair point.
I mean, I was told when I was a kid, "Do whatever you fucking want to do. Don't follow the rules. Step out. Do whatever." This is what punk rock is. Punk rock is fuck all that. Get rid of the rules. Lose the fucking ego. Do whatever you want. Shoulder to shoulder. Nobody is in charge. No ass-kissing rock star fucking bullshit here. Do it. And I have lived up to that my whole life, and people don't like it.
Fuck yeah. I like it.
Yeah, it's like, you know, my friend Iris [Berry] says, "When you stop being a people-pleaser, people aren't pleased." I fuckin' love that. People aren't pleased.
Yeah. So, one last thing I wanted. I've been reading this [holds up Jack's book Transmission].
Oh, Transmission.
Yes. I've been reading it. I'm almost done.
Oh, and you're still talking to me?
Yeah. Actually, I really like it, and I wanted to point out that, actually, maybe the ending ruins everything because I'm about 40 pages away from the ending, so I don't know, but really, I like it a lot so far. I really think, now hear me out, that you'd have to dial down some of the depravity, but it could make like a great Netflix series. I really feel it could.
Well, I would never dial it down. That's the problem. But I mean, now you know, the thing about that book, you're rooting for the guy that you're rooting for is a total piece of shit. You know, somebody, I'm not going to give it away, but you know, it's like you're rooting for a guy, he's a lot, you know, I don't like to give out any parts of it, but there's nobody good in that book. There is nobody good in that book. It's just, yeah.
Yeah, it's great though, man.
Yeah, I think if I get a chance to do it, it's an X-rated film. I mean, there's no way around it being an X-rated film.
So you refuse, you cannot dial it back?
Well, what are you going to dial back? It'd be so hard to dial it back.
You could make it like a fun-loving, dysfunctional family doing this stuff, but maybe not. [Laughs]
And yeah, he's performing oral sex on his wife's boyfriend, who's a cop. It's pretty fucked up. I'd love to make a movie out of it. You know what I mean? I'd love to make a movie out of it.
Yeah.
I just started a new book today. I just started writing a new one today. But yeah, Transmission is one of my favorites.
Yeah, that's great. I've read American Demon, and I read the, what's the really short stories one, the micro stories?
Oh, True Stories.
That one's really cool too.
Yeah, that's fun too, and I'm just learning. You know, you're just writing. You're just learning, writing, and having fun. It's like, I like writing because it's just me. I'm in the office. I got cool drinks. I want to go surf. I go over and surf for a little bit, go get in the ocean, come back, get back to work, you know. I love that. And no one's around but me. I'm the only querulant in this room.
So is it true that the editor didn't want to be known, as it says at the beginning of this?
Yeah, exactly. It was, no, I don't want my name on that. I don't want my name on this.
Nice. I like the little disclaimer on the back, too.
Well, yeah, the disclaimer is pretty funny. And those, now I'm not going to tell you what books they came from, but the reviews that are on the back of that. Those are all reviews from novels that are considered classics today.
Oh, nice. I just put my name in instead of their name. But it's so crazy because we consider these books classics now, and back there, you look at the review and say if this is described as anything other than pornography, it's a lie. You know, how this could be printed is unbelievable.
Yeah, but I think Transmission is probably one of my favorites. I'm glad you like it.
Yeah, no, I do. It's great. The album's really good too, man. I can't wait until it comes out on vinyl. I've been listening to it on my phone. It sounds...
The Germans are crazy good producers. Goddamn, the sound's so good. Yeah, it's fun, man. And it's different.
Yeah, very much. It's great though, man. It's still you. So I don't think anyone has anything to worry about if they want to check it out.
No, no. And you know what's like? It's like an old rock record. You know, I was a Queen fan. I love Queen, you know. So, so, you know, Queen would have this really ass-kicking hard guitar and then they go into bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. But you're on a journey. You know, you're on a journey.
Nice.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fun. Well, good to see you again.
Absolutely, man. Yeah. Thanks for spending some time.
Alright. Stay in touch. Enjoy the book. Let me know how you like the ending.
I will, for sure.
Sounds good, man. Bye-bye.
See you later.
***
Jack Grisham and the Life Undone will be out on July 10th via Lost in Berlin Records.
Tagged: a hardcore conversation, jack grisham, tsol
